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Extraordinary Constitutional Convention 2017

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Post by Abdoa Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:54 pm

This thread is dedicated to the Extraordinary Constitutional Convention of 2017, established by SO#2017-63 ("Motion to Convene an Extraordinary Constitutional Convention"), constituted as a Commission of Parliament. The Rt. Hon. Minister of Jurisprudence Libertarian Democracy, MP LSM GSM will chair the said Commission.

September 9, 2017
The Rt. Hon. Prime Minister Abdoa, MP LSM GSM
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Post by Libertarian Democracy Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:54 am

As the Parliament of the Union has prescribed, I, as the Minister of Jurisprudence of the Union, do hereby convene this Extraordinary Constitutional Convention.

I do hereby summon the following Delegates to this thread.  Please post to confirm attendance.


  • ECC Chair, The Right Honourable Libertarian Democracy, MP LSM GSM
  • Nonvoting Delegate The Honourable Founder Nassau-Windsor, MP LSM
  • Cabinet Delegate The Right Honourable Minister without Portfolio Thomolia, MP
  • Cabinet Delegate The Right Honourable Minister of Development Hashkin, MP LSM
  • Parliament Delegate The Right Honourable Prime Minister Abdoa, MP LSM GSM
  • Parliament Delegate The Right Honourable President Lhistonia, MP
  • Parliament Delegate The Honourable Aralunya, MP
  • Citizen's Delegate Islamic State of Malaya
  • Citizen's Delegate The Honourable Saint Artica and the Nordic Kingdoms, MP
  • Citizen's Delegate (vacant)

Please note that this list was forwarded to me by the Prime Minister and any inquiries regarding the election of Delegates should be directed to them.

Our Purpose: We are to propose and debate any and all Constitutional Amendments we create, and send the best ones to Parliament.

PHASE I:

PHASE II:

PHASE III:

PHASE IV: Conclusion - Immediately Following Phase III
All the proposals that pass will be forwarded to the Speaker of Parliament where they will follow the normal process for handling amendments.


Last edited by Libertarian Democracy on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:27 am; edited 5 times in total
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Post by Abdoa Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:30 am

I would like to confirm that the previously proposed Constitutional Amendments are automatically going to be debated here, so that we don't have to re-propose them:
SO#2015-11
SO#2016-09
SO#2016-12
SO#2017-21
SO#2017-64

Also, when the Parliamentary Committees for the 12th Parliament are constituted, they will have to review each proposal and how it will affect their area of expertise.
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Post by CR Lhistonia Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:30 pm

Sorry, but I didn't quite get the writing of drafts yet, so forgive me for it's simplicity, but here it is

https://docs.google.com/document/d/19JQcjUflsvJKmmPPh-vFtOAKNsajuWXpXkKrNR0qVR8/edit?usp=sharing
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Post by Libertarian Democracy Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:15 am

Submissions are now closed.  No further amendments may be tabled without my permission, which will only be granted in the case of especial circumstances and will be determined on a case-by-case basis.  Send me a TG if this is your situation.

We now move on to Phase II, the debate stage.  We are required by law to debate one proposal at a time, however, if we were to meet the Parliamentary Committees deadline, we would have only two days for each proposal.  So, the solution is, get as many proposals done with 5-day debate periods as possible, and we'll just have to send some undiscussed versions of amendments to the Committees.

The schedule is as follows:
September 14th to 18th - SO#2015-07 Debate Suspended 9/16
September 16th to 20th - SO#2015-11 Debate Time Expired
September 21st to 25th - SO#2016-09 Debate Time Expired
--Sept 24: drafts sent to Committee Chairs-- Offices Vacant.  Postponed.
September 26th to September 30th - SO#2017-21 Debate Time Expired
October 1st to 5th - SO#2016-12 Debate Time Expired
October 7th to 11th - SO#2017-64 Debate Suspended 10/8
October 8th to 12th - Parliament Delegate Lhistonia's proposal Debate Time Expired
--- October 13th to October 31st  - ECC Suspended ---
November 1st to 5th - Rules Committee Report Debate Time Expired
November 6th to 10th - Development Committee Report Debate Time Expired
November 12th to 16th - Management Committee Report
November 17th to 21st - Voting on any amendments to the proposals

This is how debate will work:  I will post the full text of the proposal, and discussion in this thread will be limited to discussion of that proposal until time has expired.  At any time during debate, Delegates may propose an amendment to the proposal, which shall be voted on after all items are debated.  I know the schedule is rough, but we are under very tight constraints here.

Debate may be suspended if a Motion to Suspend Debate is tabled and backed by four Delegates, including the Delegate that tabled it.


Last edited by Libertarian Democracy on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:28 am; edited 17 times in total
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Post by Libertarian Democracy Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:20 am

First item of debate:

SO#2015-07 ("Deputy Prime Minister Act")
Initial Proposal: Nov. 15, 2015; Senator Abdoa, First Parliament
text:
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Post by Libertarian Democracy Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:26 am

I stand against this proposal. We already have a Speaker pro Tempore under existing legislation (SO#2017-16), and I don't think that we should be taking Acts of Parliament and transcribing them to the Constitution. Not every Parliamentary procedure need be codified in the Constitution.
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Post by Abdoa Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:37 am

I also am firmly opposed to this proposal, which I authored almost two years ago - mainly because since then we have elaborated much more detailed and precise provisions for the eventuality described in the proposal through ordinary legislative means.

Therefore, I suggest that the debate on this item be abbreviated by a day or two, so that we have more time to debate more interesting or controversial subjects. In addition, could SO#2016-12 and SO#2017-64 be debated together, due to their close similarity? It seems more appropriate to have one longer debate on both items, rather than two shorter periods separated from each other.
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Post by Libertarian Democracy Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:53 am

I have adjusted the schedule to group together the two Administrative Branch amendments as per the Parliamentary Delegate's request, however I am not yet willing to end debate early. I would require four of the Delegates in total to agree to suspend debate. The theory being to allow the majority of those in attendance to express their viewpoints.
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Post by Aralunya Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:55 pm

I agree with my fellow delegates. The need for the amendment currently under debate is no longer there.
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Post by Libertarian Democracy Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:40 pm

Well, Abdoa has proposed to suspend debate, and I second that. Two more backers needed to suspend debate and move on to the next item.
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Post by Aralunya Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:53 am

I will also back the motion to suspend debate on SO#2015-07
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Post by Thomolia Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:20 pm

I second the motion to suspend debate, too.

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Post by Libertarian Democracy Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:38 pm

Debate on SO#2015-07 is hereby suspended.  We will now begin debate on the next item.

SO#2015-11 ("Reducing Constitutional Ambiguity")
Initial Proposal: Nov. 15, 2015; Senator Libertarian Democracy, First Parliament
TEXT:
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Post by Libertarian Democracy Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:47 pm

I stand in favor of the proposal. I believe that by further clarifying the existing provisions of the Constitution, we will, in turn, strengthen it.
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Post by Abdoa Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:41 am

I stand in favor of this proposal at large, but I have a couple points to make:
1- I think that Article IV Section C is superfluous and awkward now that we have more specific provisions for holding by-elections. Making it the Constitutional obligation of the Founder to call by-elections as soon as a position is vacant a) is too specific, and b) would disrupt the provisions for these eventualities that we have elaborated in much more detail in the laws on the subject.
2- Article II Section D seems again too specific. The first sentence suffices.
3- I don't think Article IV Section H is very clear in its meaning, or very useful as a clause. The Constitution only applies to members of the Union anyways.

Otherwise, I think that this proposal is one that is long overdue.
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Post by Aralunya Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:28 am

I, too, agree with the Proposed Amendment and with the recommendations from fellow delegate, Abdoa.

I also must say that the word "States" in Article IV, Section A needs to be replaced with "Nation" otherwise the changes made by that amendment wouldn't have any effect on our Government.
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Post by Libertarian Democracy Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:34 am

I remind the Honourable Delegates that they can propose to amend this proposal. Voting on any tabled amendments is currently scheduled for October 16th. Also, please note, that the authors of these proposals may not edit the proposals now that they have been submitted to this Commission, and any edits must be done through an official amendment.
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Post by Abdoa Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:28 am

I was hoping to have further input from various other members of the ECC before formally moving to amend the proposal.

In any case, it'll do no harm to draft such amendments; I therefore move the following:

Amendment I, Abdoa-
To strike Section C of Article IV from the proposal currently at debate (Item 2: SO#2015-11).

Amendment II, Abdoa-
To strike the following text from Section D of Article II of the proposal currently at debate (Item 2: SO#2015-11):
"Upon first offense, the member, and all puppets thereof, will lose their government position if already a member of the government or Parliament, and be permanently barred from being elected or appointed to Government or Parliamentary positions. Upon the second offense, the member and all residing puppets thereof shall be permanently banned from the Union."

Amendment III, Abdoa-
To amend Section H of Article IV of the proposal currently at debate (Item 2: SO#2015-11) to read as follows:
"We move to add the following to the Constitution as Article III, Section C, Subsection 7, Clause a:
“The President may only appoint Members of the Union to the aforesaid position. The President may only appoint such a Member if the Member in question agrees to uphold the duties and responsibilities of the position the Member is to be appointed to”".

Amendment IV, Abdoa-
To replace the word "States" in Section A of Article IV of the proposal currently at debate (Item 2: SO#2015-11) with the word "Nations".

Amendment V, Abdoa-
To add the following text as Article V of of the proposal currently at debate (Item 2: SO#2015-11) while renumbering the existing Article V as Article VI:
"Article V: Amendments to Article IV of the Constitution of the Union

Section A: Renumbering
To replace the designations of the current Sections 1, 2, and 3 of Article VI of the Constitution with the designations of Sections A, B and C of the aforesaid Article."
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Post by Libertarian Democracy Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:07 am

Debate time for SO#2015-11 has expired.  We will now begin debate on the next item.

SO#2016-09 ("Ending Limitations on Debate Numbers")
Initial Proposal: May 10, 2016; Senator Nassau-Windsor, Fourth Parliament
TEXT:
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Post by Libertarian Democracy Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:10 am

I am on the fence about this proposal. I don't really take issue with the debate of one item at a time, but I do stand against an unlimited amount of proposals at debate. I am interested to hear the perspectives of my fellow Delegates.
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Post by Abdoa Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:59 am

As I have previously expressed, I am definitively against this proposal: in my experience as Chair of the Parliament, this requirement is both easily surpassable by an active Parliament (via Motion to Pass to a Vote) and essential to avoid confusion and clutter: it means that all senators have ample opportunity to debate each item without having to prioritize due to time constraints.
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Post by Aralunya Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:30 am

I agree with both of you and find this proposal unnecessary. I have seen Parliament be very productive even with this Constitutional Limit.
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Post by Libertarian Democracy Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:09 pm

Debate time for SO#2016-09 has expired.  We will now begin debate on the next item.

SO#2017-21 ("Joint Appointment of the Minister of Jurisprudence Act")
Initial Proposal: April 6, 2017; Senator Abdoa, Ninth Parliament
TEXT:
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Post by Libertarian Democracy Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:12 pm

I stand against this proposal. I do not think the Founder should have the authority to dismiss Cabinet members. The Prime Minister is perfectly competent in that respect.
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